My husband's the nicer one of us
This past Friday night, we were invited by a local Jewish group to join some of our Jewish neighbors for a Shabbat/Sabbath dinner. Boy, were we surprised by what transpired.
Our hosts offered the guests three bottles of wine, none of which was kosher. To make matters even more interesting, there wasn't an uncut loaf of bread to be had. For lack of an alternative, we ended up making kiddush over orange juice (with a change of b'rachah/blessing to "sheh-ha-kol") and motzi (the b'rachah thanking HaShem for bread) over two slices of bread from the package that had a hechsher on it.
On the way home, I commented to my husband that I was surprised that a family that's so active in one of the local synagogues (not ours) would be so unaware of the traditional way to perform the Erev Shabbat/Sabbath Eve home rituals. His response was that this was a good learning experience for them. I had to agree, and to note that our hosts seem to be members in good standing of the B'nei u-V'not Akiva Late Learners Club.*
I also had to admit to my husband that he's a much more tolerant and less judgmental person than I am. One of the more interesting things that my husband said recently was that, if we were younger, it might be interesting to become Yeshivat Hadar scholars and do, for lack of a better description, egalitarian kiruv, seeking to encourage observance among egalitarian Jews. I daresay that he'd be much better at it.
*Sons and Daughters of Akiva. For background regarding Rabbi Akiva, see here.
Our hosts offered the guests three bottles of wine, none of which was kosher. To make matters even more interesting, there wasn't an uncut loaf of bread to be had. For lack of an alternative, we ended up making kiddush over orange juice (with a change of b'rachah/blessing to "sheh-ha-kol") and motzi (the b'rachah thanking HaShem for bread) over two slices of bread from the package that had a hechsher on it.
On the way home, I commented to my husband that I was surprised that a family that's so active in one of the local synagogues (not ours) would be so unaware of the traditional way to perform the Erev Shabbat/Sabbath Eve home rituals. His response was that this was a good learning experience for them. I had to agree, and to note that our hosts seem to be members in good standing of the B'nei u-V'not Akiva Late Learners Club.*
I also had to admit to my husband that he's a much more tolerant and less judgmental person than I am. One of the more interesting things that my husband said recently was that, if we were younger, it might be interesting to become Yeshivat Hadar scholars and do, for lack of a better description, egalitarian kiruv, seeking to encourage observance among egalitarian Jews. I daresay that he'd be much better at it.
*Sons and Daughters of Akiva. For background regarding Rabbi Akiva, see here.
posted by Shira Salamone at 9:24 AM
28 Comments:
I must say, I'm with your husband. I think it was admirable of them to make an effort to make the Jewish Sabbath, albeit in a non-halachic fashion. Given that few Conservative Jews concern themselves with the Kashrut status of wine, I'm not shocked by that at all (there is a Conservative Teshuva permitting it, and I know a non-trivial number of nominally Orthodox Jews (including Shomer Shabbat ones) that drink non-Kosher wine, considering the restriction to be inapplicable to the modern wine industry.
If I were more of a wine snob, I might take issue with the limitations of the Kosher wine market, but I've been able to find perfectly good wines with supervision, so it hasn't caused me an heartache either way.
I'm equally amused when I see the "challah" for sale at Whole Foods, it's an egg-washed braided bread, but without Kosher supervision and likely without challah being taken, yet clearly there is a market for non-ritually acceptable Jewish Challah-looking braided breaded.
I remember when attending a Brit Milah of a family friend that is VERY active in her Reform Temple, I checked with her husband first, sure enough, non-kosher meal through and through. I brought my own meal and enjoyed a fruit platter at their lovely Simchah. I find it best not to layer expectations upon people.
Miami Al, you have a point about the Conservative T'shuva permitting non-hechshered wine. I'd forgotten all about that major detail. Thanks for reminding me.
"I find it best not to layer expectations upon people."
That's a wise approach, and one that I'm trying to incorporate into my personal perspective (religious and general). As you can see, I haven't been too successful, thus far, but I'm working on it.
What Miami Al is forgetting, however is that the responsum - "On the use of all Wines," authored by Elliot Dorff - does NOT permit recitation of Kiddush over non-kosher wine. You can make Kiddush over Kosher grape juice. He holds that Kosher wine alone should be used ritually.
Personally I will use either kosher or Organic wine for Kiddush, but if a guest shows up with something that is neither, I will use it for the sake of not humiliating them.
If I am invited, I bring wine that is kosher (but not necessarily mevushal). For you, bringing a kosher wine as a "hostess gift" would ensure that you have something kosher to say Kiddush over while remaining polite to your hosts. I'm partial to stuff from the Golan Heights winery, myself, especially their "Gamla" label.
I have a friend who is fond of saying that Kashrut, while designed to keep Jews from eating with Gentiles, has proven more effective at keeping Jews from eating with other Jews.
Reform BT, thanks for the rituals-with-kosher-wine-only reminder, and for the suggestion. I hope we can get away with bringing a bottle of kosher grape juice, as alcohol and I don't get along particularly well.
"I have a friend who is fond of saying that Kashrut, while designed to keep Jews from eating with Gentiles, has proven more effective at keeping Jews from eating with other Jews."
Ain't that the truth! When I bring baked goods to the office, I have to be sure that they're Pat Yisrael, or some of my co-workers won't eat them. (If the baked goods are also Kemach Yashan, that's one less thing to worry about.) This means, of course, that I can't go shopping for party food in my own neighborhood. :( And then, too, there's the question of who accepts which hechsher. It can sometimes actually be easier for me to bring kosher food to the home of Jews who don't keep kosher, or even to a non-Jewish home, than to a kashrut-observant Jewish home.
"I must say, I'm with your husband. I think it was admirable of them to make an effort to make the Jewish Sabbath, albeit in a non-halachic fashion."
Indeed, Miami Al, it certainly was admirable. Leave it to Ms. Negative-Thinking to miss the *good* news.
Shira,
Most of my family is not observant in anyway. Some make an effort to provide food for us at events, some do not. My personal religious obligations, as well as my immediate family's are incumbent upon me, not everyone around me.
I wouldn't attend a Shabbat dinner at the home of someone that doesn't keep Shabbat/Kosher, because it's too much of a headache that results in ACTUAL problems, but for other occasions, we do our best to attend. Regarding my friends that keep Kosher and publicly keep Shabbat, but aren't strictly observant, any time they've invited us over for Shabbat meals, they've done take-out for the entire meal. In the Orthodox world that I live in, those that aren't observant know that they aren't observant, and don't make things difficult for those that are.
Hence my general recommendation for you, find an observant community that you like, worry about the theological issues later. Then again, I have small children at home, it's far more of a concern of mine that we all have a wonderful Shabbat experience than it is that I hashkaficly agree with the Rabbi. I don't really see why my philosophical disagreements with the Rabbi has any real bearing on my life, so I choose not to consider it any more relevant than my political disagreements with some of my friends.
BTW, for events like that, best to bring two Challah Rolls and a small bottle of Kedem grape juice with you, just as you would do on vacation if you were somewhere without ready accommodations. That way, you and your husband can go to another room, make Kiddush and Hamotzi, and rejoin the festivities. That's what we've done when spending Shabbat with my extended family, who are capable of getting take out for a meal but not actually sitting down for a Shabbat Seudah. It's really no more particular than when I'm at a lunch meeting and I get up to wash before eating.
"My personal religious obligations, as well as my immediate family's are incumbent upon me, not everyone around me."
Miami Al, I really do have to keep in mind that no one but me is obliged to help me observe mitzvot.
"I wouldn't attend a Shabbat dinner at the home of someone that doesn't keep Shabbat/Kosher, because it's too much of a headache that results in ACTUAL problems"
I’m not sure we’ll ever go that route.
"Regarding my friends that keep Kosher and publicly keep Shabbat, but aren't strictly observant, any time they've invited us over for Shabbat meals, they've done take-out for the entire meal."
That's how I'd host more-observant guests, too. And if I'm not sure what their level of observance is, well, when in doubt, do take-out.
"I don't really see why my philosophical disagreements with the Rabbi has any real bearing on my life, so I choose not to consider it any more relevant than my political disagreements with some of my friends."
:) That's an interesting perspective, Miami Al. I suppose that, if I choose a community that's open-minded enough not to toss me out on my kiester for the "crime" of wearing a tallit and tefillin while female, I could probably live with whatever differences of opinion I may have with the rabbi.
To be continued--time to earn my pay.
"I suppose that, if I choose a community that's open-minded enough not to toss me out on my kiester for the "crime" "
You do know that it has been illegal to discriminating in housing based upon religion for a while, right? How would said community "throw you out?"
You're not going to get thrown out of the Conservative Shul that you take the subway to for that, are you? You can't be thrown out of your home for it, so what could happen?
If you showed up in the women's section dressed like that, people might assume you were visiting relatives. If you didn't dress "provocatively" in such a manner in the Orthodox Shul, what would happen?
I don't care much for Shul politics, so I'm not really sure how one would throw one out of a "community?" Stop cashing dues checks? How does that affect you.
Your Judaism is VERY synagogue-centric, as is most Conservative Judaism. In the Orthodox world you could be actively involved in a "community," particularly a small subset of it, and not walk inside of a synagogue for years. I think my wife has been inside a Shul maybe 4 times in the past year? Yet we have Shabbat plans for probably 40 Shabbats a year?
Short of joining a Chareidi cult Shul with the threat of violence, I'm not sure how one would "throw someone out of the community."
"BTW, for events like that, best to bring two Challah Rolls and a small bottle of Kedem grape juice with you, just as you would do on vacation if you were somewhere without ready accommodations. That way, you and your husband can go to another room, make Kiddush and Hamotzi, and rejoin the festivities."
That's a good plan. For group dinners such as this, though, we're probably end up sharing whatever we bring, since the whole point of the get-together is that we're supposed to be celebrating Shabbat as a group.
Sorry, poor word choice--"kicked out on my kiester" can, indeed, be understood as meaning "evicted." What I meant was that I need a synagogue in which I won't get the fish-eyed stare for being a woman wearing a tallit (and tefillin, on a weekday). To be the only female member of a Conservative shul (synagogue) who wears a tallit and tefillin is bad enough, but I can always remind people that the Conservative Movement has been ordaining women as rabbis for decades. I don't have nearly as much leeway in the Orthodox world, since the number of Orthodox women who hold rabbi-like jobs can probably still be counted on two hands. So, should I choose to become part of the Orthodox community, I would be much more comfortable choosing an Orthodox synagogue in which I would not be the only woman wearing a tallit. I've davvened/prayed in a few such Orthodox shuls.
"Your Judaism is VERY synagogue-centric, as is most Conservative Judaism."
Yes, one of our Conservative former rabbis said the same thing, complaining that many Conservative Jews don't understand that most mitzvah observance actually takes place outside of the synagogue.
"In the Orthodox world you could be actively involved in a "community," particularly a small subset of it, and not walk inside of a synagogue for years."
I'm sure that's true, but what do want from a thus-far-lifelong Conservative Jew? :)
>>To be the only female member of a Conservative shul (synagogue) who wears a tallit and tefillin is bad enough, but I can always remind people that the Conservative Movement has been ordaining women as rabbis for decades.<<
Unless you're planning to relocate to a conservative shul outside the northeast, this will not be an issue. Even in that region, it will be an issue in most O shuls, in that many will give you the stink-eye. Of course,there are definite exceptions to this observation, but I doubt you are headed towards them.
Can you find an "Orthodox" Shul where you won't be the only woman wearing a Tallit? Sure. You just can't afford to live there.
My question is, why the obsession with dressing inappropriately in an Orthodox Shul? You wouldn't meet the President in a tank top and short, you wouldn't go to the Kentucky Derby in a baseball cap, and you wouldn't show up at an Orthodox Shul with a Tallit on.
No offense, but your "demands" are setup to fail and totally unreasonable.
Other than to setup a straw man to attack, why would you ever consider being a regular at an Orthodox Shul's minyan?
Showing up like that to most Orthodox Shuls would be provocative and inappropriate, why would you do it? I suppose if you want to get yourself blackballed in the community, that sort of behavior makes sense, but I'm really not understanding your motivation for any of this.
Do you want Shabbat observant Jews to spend Shabbat/Yom Tov with? If so, they live in Orthodox communities with an Orthodox Shul in them.
Do you want to go to Shul, lead services, wear a Tallit, etc? If so, than you need to attend services at a Conservative Shul.
You cannot and will not find a Conservative community with "up to your standards" Shabbat observance in the affordable housing avenue you are looking at.
You cannot and will not find an Orthodox Shul that is non-Orthodox enough for you inside the affordable housing avenue you are looking at.
So whining and kvetching about it is rather tiresome. You could solve your problems by finding a community that has a Conservative Shul within walking distance. But you will not solve your problems if you desire to talk into an Orthodox Shul with a neon sign that says "obnoxious Conservative woman here to disrupt your Tefillot."
I think Al's last post hit the nail on the head. Your solutions are not real solutions because they are set up to fail.
My ortho shul (as left wing as it is) wouldn't (and hasn't) give a woman visitor the fish eye for wearing a tallit, but I don't know how welcoming we'd be of a woman who regularly came wearing a tallit and tefillin. It's way outside our norm and would probably make folks like me who think we've struck just the right balance of modernity and orthodoxy as a step too far to the left.
And the conservo movement you want doesn't exist. You want observant, educated lay people who will keep mitzvot and respect your egalitarianism. Doesn't exist. I suppose you could get an apartment near JTS, but that's the only real option. (And, incidentally, many of the rabbinical students wouldn't be living up to your halachic expectations either.)
Your posts on this topic increasingly remind me of the old joke: A new rabbi takes over. The first shabbat, half the people stand up for kri'at sh'ma and the other half remain seated. The standing half starts yelling at the sitting half and vice versa.
Bewildered, the next day the new rabbi asks the old rabbi, "Is it the shul minhag to stand during kri'at shma?" The old rabbi says "no, that's not our minhag." The new rabbi asks "Is it the shul minhag to sit during kri'at shma?" The old rabbi says "no, that's not our minhag either."
The new rabbi says "but yesterday, half the crowd was standing, half was sitting, and both sides were yelling at each other."
The old rabbi beams and says "Ah, that's our minhag!"
You are at war with yourself and you need to decide what is most important and just pick based on that.
Miami Al said, " . . . you will not solve your problems if you desire to talk into an Orthodox Shul with a neon sign that says "obnoxious Conservative woman here to disrupt your Tefillot.""
One of the more interesting aspects of blogging is that responses to posts, both in the comments and via e-mail, give one an opportunity to see oneself through other people's eyes. As you can see, this is not always the most pleasant experience, but it's certainly enlightening.
For the record, I've never entered an Orthodox synagogue wearing a tallit without already having confirmed that that particular synagogue accepts the practice, nor have I any intention of doing so in the future. I don't wear a tallit and tefillin just to offend people. In the past, I used to wear a tallit katan under my clothes, with the tzitzit carefully tucked in and well hidden. My current practice, when I'm not sure what's acceptable or already know that a woman wearing a tallit is not acceptable, is simply to davven/pray through the Amidah prayer of the Shacharit Service at home (or at the home of our hosts) and show up in time for kriat haTorah/the Torah reading.
"You cannot and will not find a Conservative community with "up to your standards" Shabbat observance in the affordable housing avenue you are looking at.
You cannot and will not find an Orthodox Shul that is non-Orthodox enough for you inside the affordable housing avenue you are looking at."
Yeah, we already figured that out. :( We have two options. (1)We stay put and commute to shul for the rest of our lives--we take it for granted that, by the end of this decade,at best, there won't be a single synagogue of reasonably observant Jews left in the neighborhood, since the only Conserv shul and both Ortho shuls are on their last legs. (2) We move to a Jewish neighborhood, and watch our cost of living go through the roof. That's it, folks--those are our only choices. :(
Again for the record, if my hosts disapproved of a woman wearing a tallit, I'd get dressed and then sneak it on while still in the guest room, wearing it just long enough to say all three paragraphs of the Sh'ma, then take it off so that no one would catch me in the act. As I said, I don't wear a tallit just to offend people.
JDub said, "My ortho shul (as left wing as it is) wouldn't (and hasn't) give a woman visitor the fish eye for wearing a tallit, but I don't know how welcoming we'd be of a woman who regularly came wearing a tallit and tefillin. It's way outside our norm and would probably make folks like me who think we've struck just the right balance of modernity and orthodoxy as a step too far to the left."
I'm sure that's true, which is why I wouldn't wear a tallit in your shul.
"And the conservo movement you want doesn't exist. You want observant, educated lay people who will keep mitzvot and respect your egalitarianism. Doesn't exist."
That's probably largely true, too. Even the folks who davven in my favorite egalitarian Conservative synagogue in Manhattan are very diverse in their observance levels, ranging all the way from completely observant to perfectly comfortable standing outside the synagogue on a Shabbos morning in a tallit while talking on a cell phone. My personal experience has been that Jews who are both observant and egalitarian, a combination advocated by Mechon Hadar, are fairly rare.
"You are at war with yourself and you need to decide what is most important . . . "
True.
"and just pick based on that."
Not necessarily true--I also have to consider my husband's preference. I don't think I would feel comfortable making such a radical change unless my husband were willing to go the same route. It's not just a question of how well I'd survive behind the mechitzah but in a community that supports my observance level--it would place increase expectations of observance on my husband, as well.
I posted this and Blogspot ate it... why doesn't this approach work:
Find a LWMO community, which will be non-judgemental of people that don't fit the mold, with a Conservative Shul within reasonable transportation distance... this can't be that hard to find.
Go to Conservative Shul for weekday minyanim, there is ZERO reason for you to don tefillin in an Orthodox Shul other than a reason to be provacative.
Go to Conservative Shul for Chagim, when the ritualistic aspects require egalitarianism for you.
Go to the Conservative Shul for Shabbat whenever you want communal prayers.
1-2 times/mo, wake up, pray at home, head to Orthodox Shul for end of Mussaf and Kiddush to socialize with other observant Jews. That will solve your "only observant Jew" problem, you'll now no plenty.
Why does this place any obligations on any of you. There are couples where one partner is observant, one is not (but respectful), and they manage to function just fine.
Ok, I can think of several places within the greater NYC area, which have a conservative cong. which meets your needs, all of which have attractive garden apartment style rentals in walking distance, most of which also have eruv:
Great Neck NY
Teaneck NJ
West Caldwell NJ
Highland Park NJ
East Brunswick NJ
Fort Lee NJ
West Orange NJ
I'll add, but not certain about housing:
Forest Hills, Queens NY
Fresh Meadows, Queens NY
Metuchen NJ
most of excellent mass transit into Manhattan
Miami Al, that's a possibility, at least in the short run. The neighborhood that we're currently considering does have an egalitarian Conservative synagoue and more than one Modern Orthodox synagogue. They're currently within walking distance of one another, assuming that the eruv is up and I can carry my cane. The walk will get more challenging as we get older, though, as the Conserv shul is a rather long walk from the Ortho ones. That may not be a problem on weekdays, since we can take a bus, but we may find it advisable to pick housing close where we're going to davven/pray on Shabbat as we get older.
As for our differing observance levels, I suppose that we can continue our "mutual non-interfernce agreement" (see the comments to the most-recently-linked post). :)
Again, you need to separate your understanding of "the community" from "the Shul."
There is a Conservative synagogue in the general area of our community. Just like we have friends that go to the Sephardic synagogue, the various Chabad minyanim, etc., we have friends that go to the Conservative synagogue, they dual affiliate with the main MO Shul. For this couple, the wife isn't so "into things," but if she were, and went to the Conservative synagogue and wore a Tallit, nobody would care. I had a friend (she moved away since) that taught in one of the Orthodox schools on the secular side, occaisionally came to minyan at the Orthodox minyanim (without Tallit) that once told me it was a bit off for her when she saw people from the school (Orthodox) at the Conservative synagogue for a Bar Mitzvah and she was there in a Tallit and kippa, but nobody cared (people that cared about such things wouldn't attend services at the Conservative synagogue, even for a Bar Mitzvah). Had she decided to start dressing that way at the Orthodox minyanim, it would have been provocative.
You only don Tefillin during weekday prayers, there is absolutely no reason for you to ever do so in an Orthodox Shul, except to be provocative. If you want to be "a part of the community" as opposed to a "visitor," you shouldn't wear a Tallit to the Orthodox shul.
If you go to an Orthodox Shul, you'll find that the women's section is generally pretty empty until the end. Nothing would stop you from:
1. Going to a conservative minyan during the week to don Tallit/Tefillen.
2. Going to Shabbat Services at the Conservative Shul when you want to be an active participant, say 2 Shabbats/month + all Chagim.
3. Davening at home, with Tallit, twice/month, and showing up late at Shul to join for the end of Mussaf and Kiddush, which is when you'll meet people anyway.
(I think I switched sufficiently between English, Yiddish, Hebrew, and Yiddlish in those instructions)
Those suggestions, combined, should give you your social outlet of observant Jews and the ability to be egalitarian in your Judaism, which is consistently my suggestion.
That solves our your "needs."
The "wants" that it doesn't solve are unreasonable, people don't need to conform to your behavior.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of Great Neck. I'm not sure how viable their Conservative synagogue(s) is/are. I've checked Forest Hills--it's largely an Orthodox neighborhood, at this point, and also mostly Bukharan, both of which make the continued viability of the ("American")Conserv shul somewhat unreliable. Thanks for suggesting Great Neck,though, TOTJ Steve--if we could get a place near a railroad station, that might be worth considering.
"Again, you need to separate your understanding of "the community" from "the Shul."
Workin' on it, Miami Al.
Shabbat Shalom, all--time to head home and help the poor hubby with Shabbos prep, which is largely *his* job at this early-sunset time of year, just because he has no classes to teach on Fridays.
Great Neck is a very, very, very viable conservative shul (Temple Israel Great Neck). The rabbi, Howard Stecker, is a mensch. I know he and his wife personally. Wonderful people.
JDub, that's good news. Unfortunately, I just did a quick online check of rental prices for one-bedroom apartments in Great Neck, and they're no lower than those in the Jewish neighborhood in New York City that we're currently considering, where we'd be within walking distance of kosher stores and wouldn't need a car. Thanks for the suggestion.
I see a handful of people with a Shabbat Scooter. Once you have mobility problems, that should let you get to whichever Shul you want.
My suggestion would be to live nearer to the Orthodox Shul, so you are nearby more observant Jews, for traveling for meals, etc. When the cane no longer works for you, you get a Shabbat Scooter that you take to the Conservative Shul to get to minyan.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions, Miami Al. I'll certainly keep them in mind.
Have you considered Washington Heights? It's pretty walkable though hilly, relatively affordable, and has kosher food, several Orthodox shuls and a strong egalitarian community as well.
We looked in Washington Heights before moving to our current location, but I've heard that the neighborhood has improved considerably since then. Naturally, it's more expensive than our current neighborhood, but the transit is better from there than from the Jewish neighborhood in New York City that we're currently considering. It also has Fort Tryon Jewish Center, which is egalitarian and has a rabbi with a PhD from JTS. Maybe we should take another look. We'll have to find out how the kosher shopping is up there--we don't know whether there any kosher grocery stores in Wash. Hts. Thanks for the suggestion, David.
Post a Comment
<< Home